Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

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For bear protection I hike with:

bear bell(s)
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bear spray
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no bear protection
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by PeteE »

mattB wrote:Why is cooking on the trail any different than cooking at a backcountry campsite?
Smells aren't any different out on the trail than they are in a camp?
I've seen plenty of campsite cooking area's with almost NO visibility...

Don't be obtuse Matt 8)
At the "official" BC campsites there's no choice about visibility.
A "designated campsite food prep area" that's kept clean is the best that can be done.
And in spite of our best efforts, bears still try to come in BC campsites...(front country campsites as well). We all know that.
That's why one has to be "Bear Aware" at all times everywhere.


And you're right, smells aren't different on the trails.
But do you want every yahoo out there cooking and eating wherever they feel like it?
All that would do is exacerbate the problem.
Unhappily, imo of course, 8) the "general public" today can't be trusted anymore to use what my generation called "common sense".
Not all, but too many people, are selfish these days. It's all about "me" with too many people. **I** will do what **I** want, etc. etc.
And so the rule is, or ought to be, "no cooking except in designated areas".
And thereby discourage the practice before it becomes popular (unlikely but who knows).


I've never done it in Glacier, but I've hiked with several people who like a hot lunch on the trail. They carry a small stove, and then can have a cup of hot soup for lunch and some hot coffee or tea.. Its never anything complicated, really just boiling water.
I've never done it just because I don't want to carry the extra weight of a stove, fuel, and pot; although there have been a lot of days when a cup of hot soup or some hot coffee would have been nice at lunch time..
pete :wink:

PS

I like the pale yellow route finder better. 8)
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by mattB »

Why is someone stopping to boil a couple cups of water and make some soup or coffee going to be more of a problem than someone with a salami sandwich or bacon sandwich on the trail? Or fresh baked chocolate chip cookies? Or opening a can of sardines or tuna for lunch? Or some smoked salmon or beef jerky for a snack on the trail....

I don't think people heating up a quick lunch on the trail is a problem or ever will be a problem, as long as people aren't blocking the trail or being a nuisance to other hikers.

If you're going to ban cooking on the trail, then it really should also be banned in campsite cooking areas, since that is a small area and the cooking smells are concentrated in an area near campers, and since the cooking area is used repeatedly every day during the season animals will quickly find it...
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by thorn726 »

i have to concede that what i was talking about doing, heating a mtn house- will generate far more traveling smell than taking out a sandwich, especially considering you wait 10 min with it steaming away casting odor all over before eating.... i could see boiling water, making tea in a thermos and getting on the trail again as very low risk, but i'm not going to risk sitting there with hot meat and salts wafting if others are saying it might pose a problem. The campground comes with the tiny extra safety of a bunch of people making noise at least. // ps while i eat jerky and lots of other stuff on trail- comedy, i would NOT open a can of tuna out there- that stuff is well known for attracting animals of all kinds from long distances.... every stray cat in MT might be after you hahaha....
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by PeteE »

Please forgive me for ever raising the f'ing issue.
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by thorn726 »

PeteE wrote:Please forgive me for ever raising the f'ing issue.
i asked and feel like i got a good answer, you can blame me if you want/sorry/ grizzly bear country is not the same as the black bear wilderness im used to// people who are out there all the time are gonna do whatever they feel comfortable with, but im going to take your advice///
NEXT - we were just watching the "back country video" on the Glacier Park site (i assume it is the same, or close to the one the Rangers will have us watch at the permit office)... and we notice they show a group of 3, everyone has a can of bear spray... There will be two of us, should we both carry it to be safe?// i know the odds of an encounter are very low but then they say things in the video like "if it starts to eat you" and i feel like no precaution is too much// if any of you are in a group, how many usually carry spray ? everyone, or just one person carry the bear spray and everyone stick together?
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by indiana hiker »

"i have to concede that what i was talking about doing, heating a mtn house- will generate far more traveling smell than taking out a sandwich, especially considering you wait 10 min with it steaming away casting odor all over before eating."

I agree thorn. I have never smelled anyone's sandwich when I passed them on the trail, but have experienced the smells given off from cooking, even just a mtn house meal, when hiking by a camp. Those smells travel farther and when you are in camp cooking, at least it is in a concentrated area with usually a larger group. Just my thoughts. And I think all in the group should carry spray. We used to travel with just one can when there were two of us, but it is hard to make sure you are close at all times. Hopefully you won't need any of them, but I would rather have too many than not enough!! Enjoy your trip, it sounds great and seems you have done (or are doing) your research.
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by llholmes1948 »

When we are hiking in Glacier we are usually hiking in a group of two if it is my wife and me or a group of four if our adult kids have joined us. We try to make noise, we try to be alert to our surroundings and we do not usually hike in the early morning partly due to Park Service recommendations but primarily because some of us are not early risers. (I realize that some prefer to hike early in the morning and that is their call.) As I mentioned before we are cautious about hiking around blind corners and especially around blind corners near noisy waterfalls. Only one of us carries bear spray and to my knowledge that has never caused any in our group to feel unsafe. We do not make special efforts to try to find and observe bears although some do.

I recommend that you read and study what you can about hiking in the park and that you enjoy the park without dwelling too much on the remote and unlikely possibility of a bear attack.

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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by paul »

I agree with the advice about not hiking too early in the morning. It just makes good sense to avoid the time on the trail when bears are most active.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by PeteE »

I respectfully disagree that early morning( early morning being the first hour or two after official sunrise) hiking is risking a bear encounter.
But....Im a believer in the old saw about "hike your own hike."

That said, I think those who avoid hiking in the early morning are missing out on the absolute best part of the day.
And for no good logical reason.
Bear encounters are soooooooooo rare to begin with.
And just how many attacks have there been in the last 20 years?
Out of how many million "hiker/ miles" traveled in the morning hours?
Bears are "everywhere all the time".
Personally, I've seen more bears later in the morning and afternoon than in the "early morning".

I would say this to those new to hiking with bears...
You`ll be very lucky to even see a bear in the week or two you`re visiting GNP.
Soooo...
If you want to be a "9-5" hiker, fine with me 8)
It's your vacation, not mine.
A couple things for you late starters to keep in mind.
Given the HUGE crowds the last few years, good luck on getting a parking spot at any of the popular trailheads.
Photographers will miss some of the best lighting for pictures, and....
You`ll miss a good photo op on many of the animals that are out and about early AM.
Same with photo ops flowers.
Oh yeah, start late so you can hike in the "heat of the day"....and maybe not get done before the afternoon T-Storms. 8)

So weigh the actual probability of a bad early morning bear encounter against missing out on all the good reasons to ignore all the "hyperbole" of a possible bad early AM bear encounter.

Singing, shouting, and those awful annoying bear bells are fine, but...
Always be "BEAR AWARE"!
Whatever you do, and whenever you hike, remember that your best defense while hiking lies "between your ears".


And "Thanks" to those of you who do start late. Makes my finding a parking space a lil easier. 8)

pete :wink:

As to the question of how many people in a party carry bear spray...
The group leader, if there is one, should carry bear spray for certain.
Large groups may want one for each 2 or 3 people, depending on experience of the group.
Groups sometimes get spread out and/or separated.
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by llholmes1948 »

Pete has given his persuasive reasons for hiking early in the day so you have to weigh the various factors and I quite agree that everyone has hike his or her own hike.

I have found some late afternoon/early evening hikes to be stunningly beautiful. These have included a hike to Iceberg lake starting about 2-3 pm and a hike to Siyeh Pass starting at about the same time. We didn't intend to start that late but that is what happened. Any time of the day that you can hike in Glacier is a great time.

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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by thorn726 »

Thanks for the info folks!! i know a bear encounter is Extremely rare.. we've backpacked about 150 miles in Sierras last few years with many day trips as well and only bear we saw was a mother and cub- with 100 other people from the gas station parking lot in middle of Yosemite..(figures). / it took us awhile to get accustomed to traveling in black bear country, we're not used to brown bears yet and just don't want to take any chances...we've done and will continue to do tons of research, so i get to overkill point// i don't have much else to dwell on // feel free to laugh at me a little, it is kinda silly but hey- new people in the woods being careless is what ruins things for everyone... better safe than sorry, sounds like people are 50-50 on whether we both need spray. We really do Not expect to have any problems day hiking but our 3 days in the BC we just want to be as safe as possible. We may carry two just in case i go off on a hike from the BC camp while Roxana stays behind.
interesting thoughts about the "morning bear encounter" ... // i'll admit i like the idea of someone else having gone up the trail ahead of me to warn off bears... but it seems like bears are active all times of the day, no predicting them really// anyway our Park schedule will be crazy so some days we'll be up early but we won't make it to BP parking until later so the parking is yours Pete! haha
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by paul »

As far as early morning hiking goes, I think my logic is sound, I'll say no more about it.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by TnTammy »

Hi Krieser and Thorn,
I'm longwinded....forgive in advance! :oops:
This has been a most interesting thread, on several topics. I value the contributors here and find them (as a group) to be so knowledgeable and helpful, giving out just the kind of info that I'm interested in, weighing the pro's and con's of topics that i feel i need to consider. I also benefit from disagreement because it brings up many aspects of the subject, from people with vast experience. The piece that ithink is MOST important is that mutual respect underlie the discourse. It's my belief that a strong opinion can be fully expressed without a slur to one's counterpart. Even better when a nod is given to the other's point of view.
Raising a glass to keeping the conversation going....great questions! 8)

Thought I'd share a few things about our bear encounters at Glacier. Totally anecdotal but the experiences have shaped our behavior out there and how we approach bear spray. Last year with our 11 nights in the backcountry, we didn't see a single bear. The year before, 9 bears (which were a mix of black bear and griz). :D That's the thing, ya just never know! Just to keep the instances separate, i think I'll number them and state if it was a surprise vs. expected.
1. By far over the years we've encountered the most bears on the Swiftcurrent Trail, sometimes pretty close to the cabins, several 1/4 mile up the trail by near Fishercap, then further out toward Redrock falls. We go in August and often at peak berry time. Huckleberry Shrubs line that trail and are all down by Fishercap. It's not unusual for several trails in the Many Glacier Valley to be closed at various times for 'Bear Frequenting'. What surprises me about some of these episodes is how FAST it happened...like a blur. They can come from deep in the shrubs (lower or higher) and i never heard or saw it until the quick dash across the trail. Mom can be followed by her cubs, all happening in a second or two. We've never felt stalked. We make enough noise in conversation or yelling out 'Hey Bear' that we've likely not surprised them. But what lingers is that if we were charged it could happen pretty quick, so both of us wear bear spray. And as Pete describes, on the chest strap of our Camels so that its easily accessible. While we expect there to be a bear presence, the surprise has been in how quickly. If you're hiking where there are a lot of ripe berries, don't be a stranger!
2. On the trail out to Kootenai Lakes from Goat Haunt, we were talking away and hiking at good pace, in shoulder high Cow
Parsnip. This BIG boy (or girl) popped that head up and just stared us down. Mike estimates it was 20 yards close. Soon we realized that Big boy was chewing away on the foliage and really had no interest in us. As we talked in low tones and backed away, Bubba went right back dipping his head to get more greens. Mike's concern in passing by was the possible presence of little cubs that we might not see. Again, using the voice in low tones, we passed without difficulty. It was our 1st Glacier surprise, not b/c it wasn't to be expected but in shoulder high foliage, you just can't see any distance at all. There are miles of this shoulder high vegetation in so many areas of the park. You wouldn't know Bubba was there until you were close, so make sure he/she knows you are there.
3. Expected episodes. We always like to chat with the Rangers and find out where there have been regular sightings. Almost every year, you'll hear that there's a bear or two in the valley above Lake Ellen Wilson. So when we visited, and the Hucks were prime, we scanned the hillsides well in advance and could see bears a couple of times from a distance. These are the most enjoyable viewings b/c we feel at a safe distance and can observe for a long time. As the bears comb the hillsides rich in calories, one feels that they have just the food source they're really interested in.
4. Gunsight Lake and St. Mary Lake. While you're enjoying the beach, they may pop out to enjoy the beach too. :shock: Both these episodes were black bear. And they were just alittle too interested in us. We started by backing away slowly, and then had to skidaddle abit more quickly. May be a good idea for only one person to swim at a time, let the other mind the beach. The Gunsight black bear followed up by raiding through the campsite area before a bunch of us made enough ruckus that it felt unwelcome.
5. Expected. We often like to drive the Many Glacier Road in the early morning or leaving in the evening, we scope out those hillsides and have often gotten a nice bear sighting. Have binocs at the ready. But if close to the hotels, try not to cause a Bear Jam by stopping in the road...really frowned upon.
6.Grinnell Glacier Trail...although we've never had an encounter there, we've read or heard accounts of such a serious nature that we initially elected to go with the Ranger Led Group. Felt very safe amongst some 25 individuals. In later years, realizing that so many depart the boat at the same time, we're almost never alone b/c we're not the fastest hikers. So there's a good people presence. Much of that trail (going up through the cliffs) doesn't have an easy exit off to the side. AND there's an occasional blind corner. We always make our presence known. Lotta "Hey Bear". Perhaps Pete would post his breathtaking video of Momma and her cubs coming down Grinnell Glacier Trail. One of my favorite videos of all time! Thank goodness he had a place to step off. Additionally, several reports over the years of people going to Grinnell Lake, taking off their packs, and getting scared off by a bear...then the bear gets food gratification. Disasterous news for the bear if it gets habituated to people.
7.Lastly, in the backcountry, we do feel more comfortable with each having bearspray. Whether one person is off to visit the Privy, each should be prepared for an encounter. Up at Helen Lake, we were the only campers there, so we were glad to both have spray in the unlikely event that a bear came back more than once. When in the tent, i feel better with both of us having the spray up close to our heads in terms of an unlikely visitor. At Glenn's, after morning photos at the lake, i returned to camp with a huge bull moose about 30 yards from our tent and he went through the other campsites also. I was glad to have some form of deterrent.

All anecdotes and not science but reiterates what the experts here have said. We make alotta noise and we both carry spray. At the end of the trip, we donate our spray at the Ranger Station which is always appreciated.

Thanks again for great questions and wishing you a terrific trip to Glacier! Tam
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by Sue Z »

I agree with TnTammy. Unless you want to take a buddy to the bathroom every time you go, it's best to carry your own bear spray. In my family of four, we each carry one. It also gives us the option to split up when desired. (In addition, I have read anecdotes about bears that were not deterred by the first can of spray.) Overkill? Yeah, that would be just like me.
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Re: Recommended Bear Protection While Hiking in Glacier

Post by thorn726 »

Thanks TnTammy..i hadnt even thought about having it accessible while we sleep, love the long reply lots of info.. and i think SueZ nailed it for us... Unless you want to take a buddy to the bathroom every time you go, it's best to carry your own bear spray..... we'll probably each carry our own.. we typically travel super cheap and this is a big expensive trip for us so might as well not take any chances, the extra few bucks is worth it... I'm pretty sure we will see zero bears but better to be ready in the BC. Thanks again to everyone who replied we feel much more ready now.
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